A Giant Metamorphosis
Alright. Here’s the obligatory Giants rant.
The Giants fired Brian Daboll after yet another double-digit 4th quarter choke job. The Giants were holding their own against the Bears, Jaxson Dart went out with a concussion, and the team fell apart again. Final straw. Gotta give credit to that camel, he held a lot of fuckin straw on that back to last this long.
I was surprised to see it happen now. After zero changes were made following the Broncos game, I simply anticipated the staff sticking around for most of the season. I expected Shane Bowen, the dogshit defensive coordinator, to get thrown under the bus before then as Daboll’s final last-ditch attempt to save his job. I expected the rest of the regime to get jettisoned in week 17ish or on Black Monday. To see Daboll fired midseason, with no other immediate changes, that surprised me. When McAdoo got fired midseason Jerry Reese went with him. Joe Schoen remains employed.
This isn’t to say Daboll didn’t deserve it. I’m glad he’s toast. He was a shit head coach. Brian Daboll is an alright offensive coordinator and that’s about it. He was extremely unprofessional, constantly yelling at players on the sidelines and acting like a jackass. He got into a feud with Wink Martindale that resulted in Wink leaving. (I do think Wink is also an asshole, but that’s another issue). When Dart was being checked for a concussion in the big Eagles win earlier this year, Daboll ran into the tent like a madman and got the team investigated and fined. Daboll had the tantrums of Jim Harbaugh and none of the rest of Harbaugh’s skillset.
He coached like a coward. He didn’t seem to follow any sort of strategy for 4th downs. Sometimes he’d go for it when he shouldn’t, and he’d often pull up when he should. He had to play some role in how the Giants would collapse with leads, that can’t entirely be on Bowen. Players did not develop under Daboll’s regime. It’s not a coincidence that every player the Giants had would leave and suddenly turn into a competent player or superstar. I don’t think that’s on Schoen. That’s on the coaching and culture. Clearly the players had the potential to be great all along and this team was holding them back. I blame Daboll for this.
And I think how he was basically using Dart to try and save his job, at Dart’s expense, was what got him canned. You can’t blame Bowen for how Dart was being used. Dart has been evaluated for concussions multiple times before this past week and Daboll would just keep him in there and call runs for him. Dart was Daboll’s guy, and it seemed like a decent match, but it wasn’t going to last like this. Dart isn’t built like Josh Allen. If they want to build around this kid they can’t have a coach who uses him as a shield to stay employed.
I do not know if Schoen will stay the GM. While he was given a green light for now, I have my doubts he sticks around. An early report seems to indicate that Mara and Tisch made this decision without Joe Schoen’s input. Since Schoen is basically Daboll’s boss, the call coming from overtop without any input seems to indicate Schoen isn’t safe to me. But they might be giving him some time to try and pitch his case. I guess we will have to wait and see.
I am sort of ambivalent either way. Schoen has made enough mistakes to justify getting canned. I also think he’s taken too much blame. The Schoen special seems to be “make a move that seems perfectly reasonable in the moment that then ends up being huge mistake later”. Drafting Evan Neal didn’t look like a mistake at the time. Letting Saquon walk and not overpaying an often-injured RB too much cap space for a team without an O-line didn’t look like a terrible idea at the time. Giving Daniel Jones a big contract with a 2-year out after a promising season was… somewhat defensible in context. The kicker issues are indefensible in any context; he’s fucked up there without question. I have thought about this issue a lot, and I think almost every problem Joe Schoen and this regime have had stemmed from a completely normal and uncontroversial decision at the start of his tenure: not picking up Daniel Jones’ 5th year option.
Nobody had an issue with that at the time. Jones looked like a bust. The team was in negotiations with Barkley. They seemed primed to move on as soon as it was reasonable. That one move fucked the Giants really hard. It made both Jones AND Barkley free agents at the end of 2022, instead of just Barkley. With Barkley playing hardball for a contract he hadn’t earned for New York and Jones having a goodish season in a breakout year, that caused the contract drama that forced the franchise tag on Barkley and the Jones deal. If they pick up that 5th-year option, Barkley likely gets paid and Jones gets dumped the next season. So many of the problems with this team management are dominoes from that one choice, a choice you’d be hard-pressed to find any fault with at the time. As I can say now; Classic Schoen.
But if they keep Schoen, oh well. I said it earlier this year I blame Daboll for most of this so if that’s the move they make, I guess I have to live with it and see who Schoen can convince to coach here. I do not have high expectations. I’d prefer a cleaned house but the true problem is the Maras and we can’t purge the foundation of the house no matter how clean it is. Gotta live with that unless we can oust them somehow.
OC Mike Kafka, who has just sort of existed since hiring, gets the interim job. I’m happy for him, honestly, it felt like he was treated poorly by Daboll and kept as a hostage when he wanted to leave. He’d get HC interviews but it was probably just as a Rooney Rule candidate (he’s 25% Puerto Rican, and he looks like a Romulan Spy). If the Giants keep Schoen, my guess is Kafka gets the full-time gig because nobody else wants to work under a hot seat GM. This is as long as Kafka shows promise. The only thing that NEEDS to happen for me is firing Shane Bowen, who is balls.
Other names floated are bleak. The Giants have tried everything at this rate. They tried to promote the hot candidate from within (McAdoo). They tried the reformed retread coach (Shurmur). They tried the left field idea (Judge). They tried cleaning house and going with the promising hot OC candidate (Daboll). No strategy has worked. There is no answer here. The problem is coming from inside the house.
I’ve seen Giants fans I would never want to associate with ask for fucking GRUDEN of all guys. No. Mike McCarthy? Well, he’d be better than Gruden. I’ve seen Spags on the list but Spags isn’t coming back. I’ve seen Antonio Pierce, which would be so hilariously bad I would laugh. My nightmare now is Bill Belichick in his flop era. UNC has been a shitshow for Billy, his life is controlled by a gold-digging careerist, and he’s an even worse GM than Schoen. But he’s Giants royalty, and a lot of people are going to want him, and the Maras might be part of that group. If we hire old perv Belichick, I am going to vomit. At least that would also probably be really funny when it blows up.
Klint Kubiak is the next hot OC guy, but after Daboll, I have no faith there. I don’t know what I want this team to do anymore. I’m just kinda numb. I have no influence or control in these decisions. I have to stomach whatever they do. I don’t care, man. I’m just so tired. This is a Kafkaesque nightmare.
I’ve been hearing rumblings since Tuesday that the fan base is trying to manifest a Mike Tomlin trade, which feels only slightly more realistic than asking Eli to do the job and I’m already sick of hearing about it. As a Steelers fan, I’ve always taken the stance that if he had better coaches around him, I think a lot of his problems would get fixed.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6796343/2025/11/11/giants-fire-brian-daboill-mike-tomlin/
I think to truly understand how much of a problem the Maras are, we need to examine the complete refresh of the Lions under Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes, which’s one of the few clean house hirings I’d call not just a lucky move, but a smart decision.
The thing about those hirings is that, despite the fact that they were mostly unknown at the time (they were considered out there hires, Campbell especially), they did actually have some signs of promise if you looked closely: Campbell was an assistant and tight ends coach under Sean Peyton during the times the Saints started to get back into the postseason picture and had previous head coaching experience in the interim position under Miami; Holmes as a scout for the Rams helped aquire players like Todd Gurley, Aaron Donald, Cooper Kupp, and Goff (their nickname was the “Mob Squad”, apparently) McVay would coach to a Super Bowl and general postseason contention. Their hirings were definitely a risk that could’ve blown up spectacularly (particularly that initial 6 year deal for Dan, which expires after next year’s campaign), and it didn’t produce results immediately (the owner had to come out during year 2 saying to trust them when people wanted them fired), but considering the stability and level of play Detroit has had, it has absolutely paid off. See Campbell taking over playcalling duties when it was clear John Morton was not ready to take Ben Johnson’s spot.
Conversely, it seems to me that Mara (or whoever he consults with when hiring) is only looking for the shiny thing that’ll make the Giants suddenly good again instead of actually taking his time to scope out candidates that’ll fit what the team currently looks like. Looking at your other failures at head coaches (and including both Reese’s last gasp Gettleman’s awful tenue), it feels like amongst all their other problems, they aren’t able to build their version of the team that can actually compete, not helped out by the fact each hire has always been told to fix the mess of the previous one. Combine that with a lack of vision on what they want the team to be, and of course you get this mess. To that end I at least understand Schoen’s mindeset; he was at least trying to build a contender.
It’s not that teams jumping on a hot coordinator or going for a retread automatically means it won’t work out (Just this year, Johnson seem sto be doing at least OK with getting Chicago on track, and despite the astrisks, Vrabel has done decent work in New England), but the Lions have been the only team I’ve paid attention to that seems to have gotten consistent success from their hires. Counting the Giants, I’ve now seen four teams in just the last three years (Jaguars, Texans, Commanders) struggle immensely after having a big turnaround season; who knows if the surprise good teams this year will continue to have success down the road after this season? Notably, those teams had to have a lot of fluky BS go their way to achieve that success, and while Dan and his staff has had his issues, the team has been able to succeed consistently despite some flaws (to the point Dave said Dan had potential when the Lions got their first win during that 3 win campaign). A lot of teams are chasing the immediate turnaround without seeing if the coaching and general management is strong underneath, and it will continue to bite teams in the ass. Choosing what personnel is right for the job is always a risk, always has factors that you can’t know for certain, and sometimes it just blows up in your face even when you think you made the right move (see what you outlined with Jones’ fifth year option), but you can always try to analyze the situation critically and learn from what goes wrong. Not a lot of owners seem good at doing that.
If the Giants want to be successful (at least in my eyes), they should try to hire someone who seems to have the (good) experience to get results and check to see if their coaching is good even if the record stinks. Again, Dave’s 3 year initial coach analysis is a good benchmark. For a GM, that might be harder to call, but 3 years should be a good baseline to start.
However, because Mara likely cares more about immediate good looks that actual success, there’s a good chance you just get stuck in this cycle for a good while, and then what? Waiting for Mara to either croak or sell the team, and who knows how good you’ll be? Giants fans are certainly sick of this shit; who knows how long their patience will run for?
That’s why if we want the sport to truly get better, we need to start implement the Green Bay model leaguewide. I don’t think it’s the de facto answer (there’s probably much better we can go once every team gets it), but it would be such a great starting point. Also make sure the NFLPA is actually good (or replace it with a union actually good), that would help to. Of course, it would require immense collaboration and education required to effectively run the team (this is assuming a giant democratic collective of fans would replace the owner, in this case), but I can see it working out for the better.
As for Schoen, considering what you outlined about him not being involved in Brian’s firing, there’s a good chance he’s burnt toast at the end of the season. That said, outside the kicking issues, a lot of his mistakes seem to be things made mistakes by Daboll and decisions he should’ve put a little more thought into. Honestly, if he is willing to evaluate and correct his weaknesses, he could actually be a solid GM. I could see a future where he gets fired, gets hired by another team, and does much better.
(as for the long comment, if anyone wants to add a perspective I missed, go right ahead)
Ok, a few things to adjust now that I read a bit back
– “How much a problem the Maras are” Kinda isn’t great as a framing device for this, but eh, I think you get my point and it was to help make the end make more sense in terms of the idea “we need to get fan opinions heard in football operations”
– “Those teams need a lot of fluky BS to get by” Lions were incredibly inconsistent years 2 and 3, and the Texans were more just solid that first year in a decent but not spectacular division, but my general point stands.